Forum Hare Scrambles Livelaps touch to be used at Atalissa H.S.

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Livelaps touch to be used at Atalissa H.S.

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The ICCR had recently requested to test the Livelaps touch scoring system at our upcoming Atalissa event. As a club we wanted to explore other scoring options in a responsible way through testing. We submitted a proposal to the IERA officers making the request. After some discussion the proposal was sent out for all IERA Clubs to vote on. This proposal asked for a temporary rule exception to allow us to test this system. The club's voted 10-3 in favor of testing. If any of you have done a recent D17 Enduro or the Urbancross then you will be familiar with this system.

The below information is what we think is the most important aspect to our racers as well as their friends and families that attend our event. Please read through it and feel free to ask us any questions you may have. We have been testing the system for some time now and we value any input you may have!

Cost Impact to riders

The ICCR club is buying tags for everyone at no cost to you (you'll still get a free t-shirt!). The club's currently pay $400 to have a race scored which pays the scoring person and gets the trailer to race locations. With this system the cost is $1 per rider scored so considering most races have 130-150 big bikes, the cost is now $130-$150. This system also allows you to pre-register for a race for an addition $1, we are not using this for the test, however, it is an option that would greatly reduce lines and waiting.

We, the clubs, would score our own races. This is why we need a simple to use system. With this system we wouldn't need a trailer anymore. A pop up or club provided trailer for registration would be nice in case of inclement weather. Some of our current equipment can still be used and the rest could be sold.

Benefits

By going to the Livelaps.com website you will see live results of your rider. We have seen it online within about 1-3 seconds after your rider is scanned. You can visit the site right now and find our event under the ICCR logo. We plan to have a leaderboard so racers can see what position they are in as well as a TV for spectators to see scores if they don't have a smartphone.

We expect to see lower scoring costs. The data uploads automatically online so results and lap times will be available during the event. If the series decides to switch to LiveLaps next year, it will also show series points without the officers needing to do anything.

Race Day Information

On race day a little about how things will work. You'll do the normal paperwork as usual and we will input your name and class then assign you a tag. We will verify the tag to make sure it's showing up as you. We hope to have a 2nd verification where you can scan the tag yourself and see all your info on a tv.

• This is very important! The tag will be Velcro to the top corner of your front number plate on the throttle side! We will have 2-3 scoring chutes that you can pick from each lap. You will race up and completely stop, we will scan your tag by hand and you will race out. It only takes 1-2 seconds to scan your tag. This should be as fast or faster than the current handlebar tight maze you are accustom to. If you've ever seen red bull hare scramble they scan those guys in the same manor. Everyone will get a new tag from us for this test, if you currently have one from another series you can swap them out for the day.

On The final lap we will take the chutes down to just 1 chute and scan everyone out single file which is no different than what currently happens now, we will then pull your tag and the race is over. You will immediately be able to see how you did and once the last rider is done the protest starts immediately. We hope to be doing trophies immediately after protest!

We will have more information for everyone available before the race, and will answer any questions that we can in the meantime. Please understand, this is a test and it's something new so please be as understanding as possible if something doesn't go exactly how I've explained. We want everyone to have fun and we really want constructive feedback!

Thank you from
-Eric Tjelmeland, Dan Myers, Ben Miller and the 32 ICCR club members
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dangerdave
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I want to start by saying that I really do hope you guys are successful! There has been a lot of issues since we have stopped scoring and it sounds like this system may be the answer, the only thing that pops up in my mind is at some events there is no Internet reception, does this system rely on an Internet connection to score or is it just to get live results? I'm assuming your reader is tied in with the program on your phone? And if the phone being used shuts off or battery's go dead can you run multiple phones as a safe gaurd?
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dangerdave wrote:I want to start by saying that I really do hope you guys are successful! There has been a lot of issues since we have stopped scoring and it sounds like this system may be the answer, the only thing that pops up in my mind is at some events there is no Internet reception, does this system rely on an Internet connection to score or is it just to get live results? I'm assuming your reader is tied in with the program on your phone? And if the phone being used shuts off or battery's go dead can you run multiple phones as a safe gaurd?


You are right on Dave, but it will run off cellular or WiFi. Having registration somewhere that has a cell signal is needed and in order to score a data connection is needed when logging into the phones but then not needed to score (just won't be live), the data uploads once signal is available again.
There's an app that's used on the phones using the NFC chip reader within the phone. We can use 50 phones at once to score or just 1, if one dies you can grab another. The data used and battery used is so small that battery has not been an issue at all. We do have battery charger packs just in case but do not expect to need them from what our testing so far has shown.

The national enduro series have used this sytem with rfid tags all over the country and they have 1 test at 1 enduro in Indiana that cant get cellular, all the other test were good at that location.

Our club is talking with cell providers to see if we can get a wifi hotspot "sponsorship " just to make things even easier but at our test we are just using our own smart phones for data because almost everyone now has unlimited data.

Knowing who has what service and how good the service is will be part of what needs researched if things go well, its possible a signal booster could be needed at a location. There is a online website that locates cell towers and I was able to at least confirm towers around race areas but signal strength would need confirmed.

The system can also be used for enduros with no other equipment needed.

No printer no paper none of that is needed as long as a phone and tv are connected and if you click on a rider name online at livelaps.com it will pull up all the lap times or test times.
dangerdave
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Ahhh good ol sign up lol I almost have blocked that whole part of scoring out of my mind! So now you can just enter all the rider info from your phone and it up loads to the livelaps.com website, then when your ready to finalize the entry's for a race the websites program just waits for the first read from a rfid tag? So is it a rfid gun or do you still use a halo?
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dangerdave wrote:Ahhh good ol sign up lol I almost have blocked that whole part of scoring out of my mind! So now you can just enter all the rider info from your phone and it up loads to the livelaps.com website, then when your ready to finalize the entry's for a race the websites program just waits for the first read from a rfid tag? So is it a rfid gun or do you still use a halo?


The normal livelaps system uses an rfid antenna, the livelaps touch system uses your smartphone to scan. We will place the phone on the tag to scan the NFC tag.

We tested the normal livelaps system earlier this year and we had guys going through 2nd-3rd gear and got scanned everytime. Contrary to what some may have heard, it worked flawlessly. We just felt like it added a layer of difficulty, it wasn't something we thought everyone could do, YET.
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Speaking of registration, another huge benefit is we can allow racers to set up there own account and pre register for every race, paying with PayPal ahead of time. We don't need to enter any rider info this way, just a matter of them bringing their tag up and scanning to verify.

Bike numbers could also be used again, a couple series provide front numberplate graphics as part of membership.
dangerdave
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But for your test you will be able to register riders via a cell phone! Now you can just walk to each person in line and hand them your phone and let them pluck away, this system kinda reminds me of mototally but without the hassle of all the equipment. At least the iera don't have to worry about paying some developer a buck for every rider they score for life, that's why they got away from that system,we were giving that guy like 1700 dollars a year!
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dangerdave wrote:But for your test you will be able to register riders via a cell phone! Now you can just walk to each person in line and hand them your phone and let them pluck away, this system kinda reminds me of mototally but without the hassle of all the equipment. At least the iera don't have to worry about paying some developer a buck for every rider they score for life, that's why they got away from that system,we were giving that guy like 1700 dollars a year!


Not saying this as a bad thing but, then on top of that paying you guys to score it. I think we can both agree we are going to have to pay someone something for scoring, I think its down to who are we paying and how much. This test is to make sure it is easy enough to use that the club's or vast majority can run it themselves. We think that's the only way it will work.
If it's easy and everyone has a cell phone now, if there were an emergency any club person should be able to step in and help out, in theory.
dangerdave
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I absolutely agree with you on almost every level. Heck we started out charging a buck a rider, but as the years went on it got more and more in depth and ended up taking all of our weekends and some of the weekdays. This system could eliminate a lot of bs and that's why I'm asking questions and trying to think of possible benefits/issues and being so vocal about it! ICCR are some of the best guys out there and I'm glad you've took such an interest in solving the scoring issue! I said from the start that the clubs need to score, livelaps may be the next step, you would think with all the experience I have on the subject that the officers or club members would be ringing my phone off the hook,but every time I chime in or offer to help all I get is name calling and negative emails lol anyways if there's anything I can do to help you lmn
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I think the big question on everyone's Monday right now is, what's it gonna take to get dangerdave back out on the track?!?!?!?
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dangerdave
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Lol razor a 1/4 mile drag track brother....I'm in a 91 mustang now! Sold the 250 to foster for parts money and now I race on the street for beer money lmao
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I've posted a video of what the live result will look like, we hope to have a club tv with the classes rotating through as the race is going on for those without a smartphone.

If you have a smartphone you will be able to go to the livelaps website and find our event and follow your rider live during the race.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_ ... 0786953850
dangerdave
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Hey good luck you you guys this weekend! Hopefully it's a Lil drier for you than it is today,I'd duck tape your phone to your hand in a plastic bag to avoid the roost!

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